Interim Joint Committee on Transportation


Minutes of the<MeetNo1> Fifth Meeting

of the 2009 Interim


<MeetMDY1> November 3, 2009


The<MeetNo2> fifth meeting of the Interim Joint Committee on Transportation was held on<Day> Tuesday,<MeetMDY2> November 3, 2009, at<MeetTime> 1:00 PM, in<Room> Room 149 of the Capitol Annex. Senator Ernie Harris, Chair, called the meeting to order, and the secretary called the roll.


Present were:


Members:<Members> Senator Ernie Harris, Co-Chair; Representative Hubert Collins, Co-Chair; Senators David E. Boswell, David Givens, Bob Leeper, R.J. Palmer II, John Schickel, Brandon Smith, Gary Tapp, Damon Thayer, and Ed Worley; Representatives Eddie Ballard, Linda Belcher, Leslie Combs, Tim Couch, Will Coursey, Jim DeCesare, Keith Hall, Richard Henderson, Melvin B. Henley, Charles Miller, Lonnie Napier, Rick G. Nelson, Tanya Pullin, Marie Rader, Steve Riggs, Sal Santoro, Arnold Simpson, Ancel Smith, Fitz Steele, Jim Stewart III, Tommy Turner, and Alecia Webb-Edgington.


Guests Appearing Before the Committee:  From the Kentucky Transportation Cabinet - Mike Hancock, Acting Secretary; Geri Grigsby and Ann D’Angelo, General Counsel, Kim Jenkins, Legislative Liaison, Steve Waddle, Acting State Highway Engineer; Chuck Knowles, Deputy State Highway Engineer for Projects Delivery and Preservation; Allen Myers, Asphalt Branch Manager, Division of Materials; David Steel, Branch Manager, Bridge Preservation Branch; Carol Brent, Division of Planning; and Thomas Zawacki, Commissioner, Division of Vehicle Regulation.


LRC Staff:  John Snyder, Brandon White, Dana Fugazzi, and Linda Hughes.


Senator Smith moved to approve the Committee’s September 1, and October 6, 2009 minutes, as submitted.  Representative Rader seconded the motion, which passed by voice vote.


At this time Jack Fish, President of Kentuckians for Better Transportation, was recognized for his service.  Mr. Fish will retire effective December 31, 2009.  The Committee also recognized and welcomed Mr. Thomas Zawacki, the new Commissioner of the Division of Vehicle Regulation, within the Kentucky Transportation Cabinet.


Co-chairman Collins presented a slide show of construction areas in Pikeville that the Committee saw prior to its meeting on October 6, 2009.  Chairman Harris told the members that he found the tour very informative and, since so many of the members were unable to make the tour in October, he asked Chairman Collins to present the slide show at today’s meeting.


The next item to be discussed by Committee was the Transportation Cabinet’s 2010 legislative agenda. Mike Hancock, Acting Secretary, was assisted by Geri Grigsby, General Counsel, and Kim Jenkins, Legislative Liaison. Secretary Hancock said that the Cabinet’s legislative package mostly contained housekeeping measures. Some of those measures included  changing the KRS references from KAVIS to an automated vehicle information system, deleting the requirement for motorcycle sidecar registration, and eliminating the mandatory microfiche storage of documents in lieu of using a computer generated filing system.  Secretary Hancock stated that the Cabinet fully supports any driving safety legislation, such as the restriction of texting while driving.


Secretary Hancock stated that the Road Fund outlook is not good, and he estimates that the 2010 Six Year Highway Plan will contain the same projects that were in the 2008 Plan, with no additions. 


Chairman Harris inquired as to when in the session the legislature can expect receiving the Cabinet’s Road Plan.  Secretary Hancock stated that distribution has historically been the last week in January or the first week in February, and he expects it to be around that same time.


Senator Boswell asked if the Cabinet were routinely inspecting overpasses.  He commented that while driving under some of the state’s overpasses he noticed holes in the concrete exposing the structure’s rebar, and expressed his concerns.  Secretary Hancock said that the overpasses are routinely inspected and what Senator Boswell was noticing was cosmetic only and no reason for concern.


Steve Waddle, Acting State Highway Engineer and Chuck Knowles, Deputy State Highway Engineer for Projects Delivery and Preservation discussed the Transportation Cabinet’s position of contracting with local governments for maintenance of state highways within their jurisdictions.  Mr. Knowles said that the state has been contracting with Fayette County Metro for several years and is currently in the process of negotiating such a contract with Jefferson County Metro.  Mr. Knowles said that Fayette County Metro’s contract requires Fayette County to conduct routine maintenance on the state highways within their jurisdiction.  He said that the state is required to make monthly payments to the County while the County is required to send its invoices to the state for services rendered.  Mr. Knowles said that he hoped to have Jefferson County Metro on board with that same type arrangement in the near future.  Mr. Knowles said that the contracts do not include interstates, but that the Cabinet was fully responsible for all interstates.


Representative Henderson asked if the Cabinet had similar arrangements with other counties and if there were savings involved in these types of arrangements.  Mr. Knowles said yes the Cabinet has a contract with one other county.  He noted that there really were no savings involved, just faster maintenance response for that county. 


The next item on the Committee’s agenda was the discussion of crumb rubber asphalt versus rubberized asphalt.  This presentation was discussed with Steve Waddle, Acting State Highway Engineer; Chuck Knowles, Deputy State Highway Engineer for Projects Delivery and Preservation; and Allen Myers, Asphalt Branch Manager, Division of Materials.


Mr. Myers said that the state used crumb rubber asphalt for a couple of projects in the 1990s, and to date those projects are still holding up well.  The Thornhill Bypass in Frankfort is one project, done in 1993, that used crumb rubber.  He said the project ran around $16 more per ton and cost 50 percent more than a project using regular asphalt.  He noted that that project used 650 used tires per one lane per one mile.


Mr. Myers said that there is also a process using shredded or chunk rubber instead of rock.  He said the state did a project in Mason County using chuck rubber in lieu of rock.  That project called for the use of 1800 tires per one lane per one mile, and Mr. Myers said he is unaware of any problems on that job.


Mr. Myers stated that warmer weather is more conducive to crumb or chuck rubberized asphalt, but that the cost would still be about 50 percent more than using regular asphalt.  And he said that he has not seen any evidence that rubberized asphalt lasts longer than regular asphalt.


Co-chairman Collins said that he was seeing more potholes in the center seams of highways than he remembered ever seeing in past years.  Mr. Myers said that there are two types of asphalt mixtures, one mixture for durability and another for strength.  He stated that in the past few years the Cabinet had focused on a strength mixture and because of this, asphalt durability had suffered.  He informed the Committee that the Cabinet was now focusing on pouring more durable asphalt and that that should eliminate some of the problems Chairman Collins was referring to. 


At this time Secretary Hancock, Ann D’Angelo, Attorney, and David Steel, Branch Manager, Bridge Preservation Branch, Kentucky Transportation Cabinet, explained Administrative Regulation 603 KAR 5:230 to the Committee. 


The last item on the Committee’s agenda was the report from the Subcommittee on Waterways’ October 20th and November 3rd meetings.  Senator Leeper, who chaired the October 20th meeting, presented that meeting’s report, and Representative Coursey, who chaired the November 3rd meeting, gave that meeting’s report.  Following the explanations Senator Leeper moved to approve the reports.  Seconded by Representative Coursey, the motion was approved by voice vote.


With no further business before the Committee, the meeting adjourned at 2:20 p.m.