Interim Joint Committee on Education


Subcommittee on Postsecondary Education


Minutes of the<MeetNo1> 3rd Meeting

of the 2005 Interim


<MeetMDY1> August 29, 2005


The<MeetNo2> third meeting of the Subcommittee on Postsecondary Education of the Interim Joint Committee on Education was held on<Day> Monday,<MeetMDY2> August 29, 2005, at<MeetTime> 10:00 AM, in<Room> Room 149 of the Capitol Annex. Representative Mary Lou Marzian, Co-Chair, called the meeting to order, and the secretary called the roll.


Present were:


Members:<Members> Representative Mary Lou Marzian, Co-Chair; Senators Alice Kerr, R J Palmer II, Gary Tapp, Johnny Ray Turner, Jack Westwood, and Ken Winters; Representatives Jim DeCesare, C B Embry Jr, Bill Farmer, Mary Harper, Reginald K Meeks, Charles Miller, Russ Mobley, Frank Rasche, Tom Riner, Charles L Siler, Kathy W Stein, and Addia Wuchner.


Guests: Mr. Gene Fuqua, Chief of Staff, and Ms. Rene' True, Economic Development Cabinet; Ms. Linda Jacob, University of Kentucky; Ms. Robbin Taylor, Western Kentucky University; and Ms. Jane Fitzpatrick, Morehead State University.


LRC Staff:  Jonathan Lowe, Sandy Deaton, and Lisa Moore.


Representative Siler made a motion to approve the minutes, and Representative Farmer seconded the motion. The motion was approved by voice vote.


Representative Marzian said members of the subcommittee would hear presentations regarding the role of the postsecondary education system and economic development in Kentucky. She said the first of the six goals set by the General Assembly in House Bill 1, the Postsecondary Education Improvement of 1997, was "to create a seamless integrated system of postsecondary education strategically planned and adequately funded to enhance economic development and quality of life." 


Representative Marzian introduced Mr. Gene Fuqua, Chief of Staff, Economic Development Cabinet (EDC) and Ms. Deborah Clayton, Commissioner, Department for Commercialization and Innovation (DCI), EDC. Mr. Fuqua gave an overview of the EDC's mission and how it relates to education.


Mr. Fuqua discussed the Kentucky Strategic Plan for Economic Development and its vision and mission statements. He also said there were four major goals under the strategic plan. They are: 1) to manage cabinet resources more efficiently and effectively; 2) to reduce unemployment and increase per capita income; 3) to create a globally competitive business environment; and 4) to manage resources to maximize return on investment.


Mr. Fuqua said there are several initiatives to support the strategic plan goals. They are: 1) attraction and expansion of traditional manufacturing and supportive service companies; 2) attraction, expansion and startup of hi-tech and biotech companies; and 3) support for existing Kentucky businesses through export services, government procurement and business-to-business networks.


Mr. Fuqua said Kentucky has several competitive advantages for attracting new industries to the state. They are: 1) central location; 2) good quality of life; 3) low business cost; 4) lowest industrial electrical cost; 5) great financial incentives; 6) productive workforce; 7) transportation network; and 8) tax modernization.


Mr. Fuqua said Kentucky ranks as the fourth lowest state in the cost of doing business. Kentucky's industrial electric power costs ranks as the lowest in the nation. He also said Kentucky's abundant supply of coal and proximity to coal-burning utility plants should keep electrical power costs low for years to come.


Mr. Fuqua said the legislature has given EDC several financial incentive programs. He said the Kentucky Rural Economic Development Act (KREDA) and the Kentucky Industrial Development Act (KIDA) deal with manufacturing companies. KREDA is a program for the more disadvantaged counties in the state, and KIDA is a state-wide program for manufacturing. He said the Kentucky Jobs Development Act (KJDA) is for the service sector, high-tech, white-collar businesses. He also discussed the Industrial Revenue Bond Program (IRB) and Tax Increment Financing (TIF) incentive programs. He said the Bluegrass State Skills Corporation (BSSC) is not listed in the handout, but it is highly used, and probably one of the most underfunded programs Kentucky has.


Mr. Fuqua said tax modernization has passed and will benefit Kentucky in a variety of ways. Key components of tax modernization include: 1) a reduction of the corporate income tax; 2) eliminating the corporation franchise tax, effective January 1, 2006; 3) eliminating intangible property tax on all but financial institutions and domestic life insurance companies; and 4) creating new incentive programs.


Mr. Fuqua said education is closely tied to economic development. He quoted several statistics from the United States Census Bureau compiled by the EDC relating to adults 25 years of age and older with high school and bachelor degrees or higher. A complete listing of the statistics are in the handout in the meeting folder located in the Legislative Research Commission (LRC) library. He said Kentucky is slipping in rank in getting students through high school and college since 1995.


Mr. Fuqua said the per capita income in 1995 in Kentucky was $18,879 and $23,000 in the United States, ranking Kentucky at 43rd in the nation. He said despite educational levels not expanding and actually slipping in relation to the national average, the per capita today in Kentucky is $27,709, which is not great, but it is moving in the right direction. He said Kentucky is the sixteenth fastest growing state in the United States on increase in per capita income.


Mr. Fuqua said the average annual wage and salary in 1995 in Kentucky was $23,102, and $31,169 for the United States, ranking Kentucky at 36th in the nation. In 2003, Kentucky's average annual wage and salary was $31,169 compared to $37,130 for the United States, ranking Kentucky at 21st in the nation. He said the salaries are increasing, although not nearly as fast as the EDC would like for them to.


Mr. Fuqua said there is a correlation between education and the wages people can earn. He quoted the annual earnings in 2004 by education of workers 18 years of age and over in the United States.


Mr. Fuqua said the EDC has a good working relationship with the community colleges and the Council on Postsecondary Education (CPE). He said they also have joint projects with Dr. Michael McCall, President, Kentucky Community and Technical College System (KCTCS) through the BSSC program.


Ms. Clayton said the DCI was created from House Bill 572, the Kentucky Innovation Act. It promotes applied research in postsecondary institutions, encourages business innovation, attracts high-tech enterprises to Kentucky, and advances higher-order skills of an educated workforce. Its mission is to build and promote technology- driven and research-intensive industries thus creating clusters of innovation within the Commonwealth.


Ms. Clayton said there are two funding pools for DCI. She said one is a high-tech investment pool, which is used to build and promote technology-driven and research-intensive industries with the goal of creating clusters of innovation-driven industries in Kentucky. The highest priority in the funding of projects is given to knowledge-based companies in fulfillment of the purposes and intentions of KRS 154.12-278. She said the second funding resource is a high-tech construction pool, which is used for projects with a special emphasis on the creation of high-technology jobs and knowledge-based companies.


Ms. Clayton said the strategic plan for DCI has five priority research focus areas. They are: 1) Human Health and Development; 2) Biosciences; 3) Information Technology and Communications; 4) Environmental and Energy Technology; and 5) Materials Science and Advanced Manufacturing.


Ms. Clayton said the DCI works very closely with the Innovation and Commercialization Centers (ICC's) across the state. Most of the ICC's are in close proximity to the Kentucky universities, bring together the necessary business expertise to assist Kentucky entrepreneurs and scientists, and facilitate investments and growth by providing the necessary tools to develop investment-grade companies. She said the ICC's organization consists of a headquarters, six affiliates, and sixteen innovation centers. The ICC concept phase fund provides grants up to $25,000 to assist businesses and individuals at the earliest stages of project feasibility and concept development.


Ms. Clayton said the innovation centers (IC's) are affiliated with the ICC's and serve the needs of rural areas.


Ms. Clayton discussed the collaborative effort success of bioKentucky. This is a consortium of universities, state government, industry and private organizations dedicated to the promotion of the bioscience industry in Kentucky. She said DCI is planning on working very closely with CPE to put an emphasis on: 1) Pharmaceutical and agricultural sciences; 2) Medical and therapeutic devices; 3) Bio and medical informatics, and 4) Biologistics.


Ms. Clayton said the next steps are to enhance communications between the CPE, the community and technical colleges, and the Kentucky Department of Education (KDE). She said partnerships need to be formed to leverage resources among DCI and interested entities, and to coordinate the IT infrastructure, which has a deadline set by Governor Fletcher of 2007.


Representative Marzian was glad to see enhanced communication as a next step for DCI. She said economic development and education are so intertwined that partnerships need to be formed. She was alarmed at the statistic that showed Kentucky only having 21 percent of adults graduating from college. She said when companies see this graduation rate, they are not going to want to locate in Kentucky. Are there any demographic studies being conducted or is the EDC assisting the universities in addressing this problem? She said Kentucky has cut the postsecondary budget, underfunded universities in the last couple of sessions, and postsecondary institutions are struggling. She asked if there were any funds that could be leveraged to the universities.


Ms. Clayton said the EDC has some funding proposals focused on academic initiatives such as the Cardiovascular Innovation Institute at the University of Louisville (U of L). She said EDC is trying to identify ways to help universities promote their programs, particularly in the bio-sciences and life sciences areas. She said the asset database is crucial to addressing specific company needs by showing them what resources Kentucky has in research and funding.


Representative Marzian asked Ms. Clayton for a list of the collaboration projects for the members of the subcommittee. Ms. Clayton said she would provide a copy for all members.


Senator Winters asked if the ICC's have some flexibility to adjust their initiative based on the rural versus urban settings. Ms. Clayton had grave concerns before arriving on the job two months ago about the mission of the ICC's and IC's. She said she has since met with all the directors of the ICC's and offered them guidance to bring them more in-line with the vision and mission of DCI. She is still unclear on the IC's mission, but would like to see it tailored to be more focused on entrepreneurship and helping these individuals with ideas to start companies, and have access to the tax incentives and other programs in place in Kentucky.


Representative Meeks asked if the IC's are working with rural farmers to help them find alternatives to tobacco. Ms. Clayton said some of them are, but she questions the level of involvement and the level of activity of some. She thinks the IC's should be focusing on new job and company creation.


Representative Meeks asked for clarification on the leveraging of resources and the establishment of an asset database. Ms. Clayton said the establishment of the asset database is a project that DCI is undertaking. The leveraging of resources involves CPE, the community and technical colleges, DCI, and KDE sitting down to form partnerships. However, two other groups are looking at IT infrastructure in the state, and she wants to make sure there is not a duplication of effort and that all voids are being addressed.


Representative Meeks asked about the ICC's in Louisville and Murray not being involved with the area universities. Ms. Clayton said it is not that they are not involved, it is that they are not affiliated. Representative Meeks asked what the relationship is. Ms. Clayton said the ICC in Eastern Kentucky is housed in an incubator, and it makes for day-to-day contact and a successful collaboration. She said this ideal set-up is just not feasible in all locations.


Senator Winters said Murray State University (MuSU) provided the space for the new incubator, and even paid the director a salary. He said that indicated to him that MuSU was vitally involved. Ms. Clayton said they are involved, but they are not attached to the institution. She said there needs to be a closer affiliation.


Representative Miller said the vocational centers should be moved into different areas. He said hi-tech is needed, but not all students will go to college, and should be in technical college. He asked if the technical colleges were offering a full curriculum for vocational jobs.


Ms. Clayton said the universities are doing an extraordinary job in producing well-qualified, educated individuals. The community and technical colleges sometimes have people who are not of the caliber of a four-year education. She said under Dr. McCall's leadership, the community and technical colleges are shifting from traditional welding courses to more sophisticated welding programs that focus on advanced manufacturing, where the skill level is going to be much higher than the traditional welding opportunities because those jobs will no longer exist.


Representative Miller asked if there would be programs implemented into the high schools to teach these upper level skills required of so many jobs. Ms. Clayton said she believes it begins in middle school, and deferred the question to Mr. Tom Layzell, President, CPE, and the KDE.


Senator Tapp asked Mr. Fuqua about Senate Bill 156, and how the infrastructure was progressing for the high-risk loan pool. Mr. Fuqua said this would be rolled out next week and ready to go.


Senator Westwood said the collaboration between the CPE and the EDC shows a great deal of promise for Kentucky, especially as it relates to information technology, and manufacturing. He asked for clarification on the areas where CPE should be responsible,  and not the EDC.


Ms. Clayton said it is her opinion that the CPE being the governing body of postsecondary education should focus on the basic research arena and help to attract federal funding. She said there will be areas, such as the establishment of academic programs, that do not fall under the purview of DCI, but do fall under the purview of CPE, and they should work together to make sure worthwhile programs do not fall between the cracks.


Senator Westwood said Northern Kentucky is growing, and Northern Kentucky University (NKU) is a big part of the reason, because they have been attracting industry, as well as working with industry, in collaborative measures to be able to grow the economy. He said a very prestigious report, the AngelouEconomics report, tied the university to economic development in Northern Kentucky, and it has become a mission of NKU and the chamber of commerce to work together in order to make partnerships work. The report identified needs of NKU, which he suspects are very similar to the needs of U of L. He said the EDC might be in a position to fund the types of things that would help this growth and be a great investment whereas the CPE does not have the funding available.


Representative Marzian asked Mr. Fuqua about the EDC's strategic plan goals of attracting both traditional manufacturing and hi-tech companies to the state. She said she understood that traditional manufacturing jobs are all headed across the borders and to the third world.


Mr. Fuqua said their idea of traditional manufacturing may be a little bit different. He said economic development has to be approached with parallel tracks, and the old ways cannot be abandoned until the new has completely taken over. He said the reason Kentucky has created the jobs and the wages it has is due to the automotive companies and traditional manufacturing. He said they are moving away from attracting traditional manufacturing companies, but cannot quit doing it completely.


Representative Marzian introduced Mr. Tom Layzell, CPE, Dr. James Ramsey, President, U of L, and Dr. Michael McCall, KCTCS. Mr. Layzell introduced Dr. Allyson Handley, Senior Advisor to Economic Initiatives, CPE, who works to strengthen linkages and increase collaboration between postsecondary education and economic development. He also said the KDE needs to be a partner in future conversations, since they have an important role to play as well.


Mr. Layzell said House Bill 1, the Kentucky Postsecondary Education Improvement Act, has been the guide for the CPE. He discussed the five questions that guide reform. They are: 1) Are more Kentuckians ready for postsecondary education?; 2) Is Kentucky postsecondary education affordable for its citizens?; 3) Do more Kentuckians have certificates and degrees?; 4) Are college graduates prepared for life and work in Kentucky?; and 5) Are Kentucky's people, communities, and economy benefiting?


Mr. Layzell discussed future challenges and the national imperatives for action. They are: 1) 60 percent of jobs today require some postsecondary education; 2) almost one-third of students who enroll are not college ready; 3) only 70 percent of ninth grade students graduate from high school on time; 4) only slightly more than 50 percent of black and Latino students graduate on time; and 5) only 18 percent of ninth graders will make it through high school, enter college and earn a two- or four-year degree on time (15 percent in Kentucky). 


Mr. Layzell said the United States high school graduation rate is below the average for developed countries according to the Organization for Economic Cooperation and Development in 2004. He said the United States ranks 16th in high school graduation rates, and 14th in college graduation rates out of 20 developed countries.


Mr. Layzell quoted statistics from the 2000 United States Census data. He said eleven counties in Kentucky are at or above the national percentage of the population 25 and older with a high school diploma or equivalent, and five counties are at or above the national percentage of the population 25 and older with a baccalaureate or higher degree. He said there are also a number of counties in both instances that are within five percentage points of the national average.


  Mr. Layzell said Kentucky is going to have to do several things to reach the national average. Kentucky needs to increase enrollment, retention and graduation rates to match the best states in the nation, and this will require that the promise of adequate funding be fulfilled in House Bill 1. He said Kentucky would also have to double the number of working age people with a Bachelor's degree or higher from 402,000 to 791,000.


Mr. Layzell discussed progress and opportunities. He said since 1997, postsecondary enrollment in Kentucky is up 25 percent to over 230,000. The number of degrees awarded is up 21.7 percent to over 31,000. Adult education enrollment is up 135 percent to over 120,000. The graduation rate increased from 36.7 percent to 45.3 percent, and since 2001 nearly 128,000 adults have upgraded workforce skills through Kentucky adult education. He said some needs are still greater opportunities for life-long learning, improved student access and success, expansion of programs in high demand fields, and to stimulate the pipeline for science, technology, engineering, and mathematics (STEM) disciplines.


Mr. Layzell said since 1997, research and commercialization has increased: federal research funding by 92 percent; endowed chairs increased 240 percent; and endowed professorships increased 393 percent. He said the needs include: adequate resources; facilities and equipment to support the state's priority research and economic development areas; skilled researchers and workforce; and a business and regulatory environment that supports entrepreneurial activity.


Mr. Layzell said Kentucky must continue to develop and nurture partnerships that strengthen the economy and improve the quality of life in the state. These include: 1) P-16 and local partnerships; 2) Gear Up and other outreach programs; 3) teacher quality initiatives; 4) engineering and public health programs and other academic collaborations; 5) Kentucky Virtual University and library; 6) homeland security consortium; 7) bio and life sciences; and 8) Kentucky Science and Technology Corporation.


Mr. Layzell said stewardship of place is a concept that is manifested today most clearly at NKU, but elements of it appear at other universities as well. He said the public agenda calls for institutions that not only serve the needs of their students, but partner with business, civic and K-12 organizations to create livable communities and solve local, regional and state problems. He gave specific examples and discussed the Stewardship of Place Trust Fund.


Mr. Layzell discussed public benefits. He said benefits of the public agenda are: 1) better educated citizens; 2) competitiveness in the global economy; 3) higher incomes; 4) more high value jobs; 5) increased tax revenues; 6) involved citizens; 7) talent force development; 8) less poverty; and 9) healthier citizens.


Mr. Layzell said if Kentucky can reach the goals for baccalaureate attainment, the cumulative increase of revenues for Kentucky would increase by $5.3 billion, and an increase of $71 billion in personal income for Kentucky's people. This is a good return on investment.


Mr. Layzell discussed what it will take to achieve Kentucky's goals. This includes: 1) stay focused on the public agenda; 2) create strong partnerships between and among education providers, state and federal government, local communities, economic development entities, and business and industry; 3) provide effective stewardship, clear priorities, and strong accountability systems; 4) have sustained and adequate resources; and 5) provide leveraged fiscal investment in education and economic development.


Dr. Ramsey said he is appearing in his role as the Convener for the Council of University Presidents. He said the university presidents see their role in economic development as something they are all committed to, and understand House Bill 1 and the public agenda.


Dr. Ramsey said higher education approaches the public agenda in two ways: strategically and tactically. The strategic issues, or the long-term goals, include increasing economic opportunity and quality of life. This is achieved through an educated population, research and commercialization, and addressing quality of life issues, such as improving healthcare for people in the community. He said these strategic goals will pay the long-term dividends.


Dr. Ramsey said the tactical issues, or immediate needs, include addressing the workforce needs, and recruitment and retention. He discussed the partnership formed between U of L and the Jefferson Community and Technical College to create the Metropolitan College program to meet the workforce needs of UPS with over a billion dollar capital investment. He said all the universities spend a great deal of time in the recruitment and retention of business and industry.


Dr. Ramsey said university presidents believe funding is important. He said U of L receives $37 million less in public funds than the average of its benchmark institutions. He said U of L is funded $81 million less than the University of Pittsburgh, which has a great medical center and is making a difference, based upon enrollment.


Dr. Ramsey said universities want the flexibility to have bonding capacity to move forward on projects. He said indirect costs that are generated on research projects can be used as a source of amortizing debt for research buildings.


Dr. Ramsey said the competition with other states is intense and real. He also said the economy is changing, and Kentucky needs to continually look at its economic development incentive programs.


Dr. McCall, President, KCTCS, said Kentucky needs good-paying jobs with a well-educated workforce to support those. He said KCTCS was created to provide education and training to support economic development. He said KCTCS was charged with improving the quality of life and the employability of the citizens of the Commonwealth by providing adult education, certificates, diplomas, and technical skills that are relevant to the workplace. He said the goal today is to provide a pool of educated citizens to support the expansion of  business and industry, and the recruitment of new business and industry.


Dr. McCall said their role as stewardships of place includes 65 locations with 81,000 students enrolled. He said 67,000 students are in enrolled in workplace and continuing education across the state, 22,000 students enrolled in adult basic education, and 73,000 enrolled in fire and rescue training.


Dr. McCall said that on average young adults with no college experience can expect to earn an annual salary of $39,000, and earnings with an associate degree are estimated at $42,000. He said the jobs coming out of KCTCS, such as a radiation therapist, make $57,000, a computer specialist can earn $54,000, and an industrial engineer and technician can earn $43,000. He said KCTCS is a strong economic development partner with the state itself.


Dr. McCall said KCTCS has been instrumental in developing the Kentucky Manufacturing Skills Standards certification and the Kentucky Employability Certificate, both designed to improve basic skill levels. These are recognized certificates and credentials that manufacturing understands and knows that potential employees with these certificates have the basic skills necessary to do the job.


Dr. McCall said the centerpiece of KCTCS economic development efforts is the Kentucky WINS (Workforce Investment Network System) program. The goal is to boost Kentucky's economy by improving the earning power of individuals, and by building a skilled workforce that will attract high-skill, high-paying jobs. Through Kentucky WINS and other initiatives, KCTCS is providing training for employees of new and expanding businesses, and is assisting communities in coordinating the delivery of economic development services. Kentucky WINS works with employers to develop high-performance work organizations. He said there are currently 60 active projects across the state with projections to serve 37,000 different citizens for their training and assessment needs at a very low cost of $591 a person. He discussed the project at the Ford Assembly Plant in Louisville, and the implementation of the Lean Manufacturing program, which is a philosophy of minimizing waste and streamlining production to enhance quality and increase profits.


Dr. McCall said it is imperative for the future to coordinate a comprehensive state plan for workforce and economic development with KCTCS. He said the state needs to recognize the preparation of a technically trained and educated workforce is just as important as research.


Representative Marzian asked what impact, if any, has resulted from not funding the "Bucks for Brains" program in the last budget. Dr. Ramsey said from U of L's perspective, "Bucks for Brains" has been the most vital program ever created. It allowed U of L to increase the number of endowed chairs and professors, but more importantly, attracts outstanding researchers to the state. He said U of L and UK would highly encourage another round of funding for "Bucks for Brains". Representative Marzian said she wanted committee members to realize the program was not funded last budget, and hopes the General Assembly can work together to get this funded.


Senator Westwood discussed enrollment and graduation rates. He would like some specific thoughts about what Kentucky can do to improve graduation rates.


Mr. Layzell said there is not one single thing that is going to improve graduation rates, but ensuring students are ready for postsecondary education when they enroll, would be the most important thing. He said some students drop out for financial reasons as well. Part-time adults students are not currently eligible for financial aid programs, and the CPE will be bringing some financial aid program suggestions before the General Assembly in the 2006 Regular Session.


Mr. Layzell said interventions need to be increased at the university level. He said MuSU is a model for the state, and has been studied nationally for its work on retention. He said adult students need a lot of hands-on attention.


Dr. McCall said KCTCS just developed a new strategic plan, which is outcome- focused and linked to the CPE's five questions that guide reform. He said KCTCS has a specific target overall, but each college also has their own outcomes they are trying to reach.


Representative Embry said school counselors should make greater efforts to reach out to students and help them to understand the importance of continuing their education. Many students and parents do not understand the value of being well-educated. He said many jobs in the job market are not getting filled because of unqualified applicants, and many people not working are a drag on the economy because they live off of public assistance. He asked if there were any programs to attract people on public assistance to get them into the workforce.

Dr. McCall said the two-year associate degree is an exit point, but KCTCS also offers six-week programs with an exit point, as well as a credential, such as the Kentucky Manufacturing Skills Standards certification. He said they need to do a better job of collecting information to target certain areas to get people trained in at least some adult education basic skills so they can obtain a job making minimum wage or above.


Representative Wuchner asked if there was a list for each high school of the percentages and numbers of those schools who require remedial courses of the students coming out, and have benchmarks been determined for the future from the postsecondary education level to reduce the number of remedial courses offered, and put that demand for rigor and pedagogy back to the high school.


Mr. Layzell said the answer to both questions is yes. He said there is a high school feedback report provided to the high schools with some of that information. The report is being updated to see if it can be more useful and effective than in the past. He said the CPE adopted a uniform policy in 2004 through the American Diploma Project that tells high school students what skill sets and ACT scores they need to guarantee they will be in credit bearing coursework. Kentucky is the only state to do this on a uniform basis with the postsecondary institutions, and it begins to put pressure on the K-12 system to make sure the students are prepared. Most students need the most remedial help in the subject of mathematics.


Representative Miller mentioned the UPS program which helps students in high school get a college degree by paying their tuition. He said partnerships need to be formed to provide avenues for students to attend college.


Dr. McCall said the Gear-Up program prepares students for jobs and careers. He said a new program was implemented this year to ensure that the sixteen colleges are engaged very specifically with the high schools.


Representative Meeks asked how Kentucky will import people that already have college degrees in order to meet the goal of doubling the number of people in the state with college degrees. He also asked about the relationship between the colleges and the various school districts. He asked Mr. Layzell if it was his sense that the college presidents should communicate with the local school boards to discuss curriculum, remediation, graduation, and partnership issues.


Dr. Ramsey said U of L works very closely with OVEC (the Ohio Valley Education cooperative) that reaches out to about fourteen different counties. He said the university presidents understand the need for the linkage and partnerships with the K-12 system.


Mr. Layzell said the successful P-16 councils are another way to get a handle on some of these issues. P-16 councils tend to be more successful when they have a paid staff person in place at least half the time. He will be asking the General Assembly for a small amount of money in the upcoming session to pay for staff people for P-16 councils.


Mr. Layzell said between 1995 and 2000, census data shows Kentucky imported more people with less than a high school diploma. This needs to be reversed. He said Kentucky could double its productivity, but if the jobs are not available in the state to keep graduates here, they are not going to stay here, nor will it import anyone here from out-of-state. The linkage with the EDC on job development is huge.


Representative Meeks asked what specifically is being done to address importing people to Kentucky with college degrees. Mr. Layzell said the programs for job development and job creation are things that are being done. He said there are many programs in Kentucky to attract jobs, but they need more funding. "Bucks for Brains" was a job development program that attracted intellectual capital, which needs more money to be funded.


Representative Meeks said there is a need for a comprehensive state plan. He wants to ensure that all entities are working together to achieve the goals for Kentucky. Mr. Layzell said the relationship between the CPE and the EDC is not as strong as it should be, but this is changing for the better. He said the changes need to come faster and partnerships need to be broadened.


Representative Siler asked Dr. McCall about people who need to upgrade their training in order to perform their jobs. He said people in his district attended a KCTCS school for two years of instruction only to find out that it did not qualify them for the license they needed to do the job. He would like to see this problem remedied and schools should make sure students know what is expected to get a state license.


Representative Siler told Dr. Ramsey that U of L lost a student this year over the issue of coed dormitories. She felt the coed dormitories were too noisy, and there was no respect for privacy. He suggested that the universities try to accommodate students' personal desires to keep them from transferring to other schools.


Representative Marzian said the federal government is considering cutting federal funds for student loans and grants. She urged interested people to write to their elected senators and congress people to ensure that this does not happen.


Representative Marzian said the next meeting of the Subcommittee on Postsecondary Education would be November 14, 2005.


With no further business before the subcommittee, the meeting adjourned at 12:23 p.m.